Podcasts Terese Collings on what 'good sleeper' means to her and how to extend sleep support through to the teen years Listen/ Watch links: Enjoying the show and you'd like even more? Become a Patron!SUMMARY- Terese shares how things worked when baby 2 came along, her second breastfeeding journey with her 'little helper' and how she balanced both of their needs. Terese also shares how sleep support looks for a teenager, and how it works in their house with a teen and two littles, soon to be three...Enjoy the podcast? Donate now to help us produce Season 3Full Episode Transcript: Carly:The Beyond Sleep Training Podcast- a podcast dedicated to sharing real tales of how people have managed sleep in their family outside of sleep training culture because sleep looks different with a baby in the house and because every family is different there is no one-size-fits-all approach to take.I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is being recorded, the Kalkadoon people, I pay my respects to the elders of this nation and the many other nations our guests reside in from the past, present and emerging. We honour Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and the unique cultural and spiritual relationships to the land, water and seas as well as their rich contributions to society including the birthing and nurturing of children. Carly:Welcome back to the Beyond Sleep Training podcast. I’m your host, Carly Grubb, and with me again this week is my neighbour, Terese Collings, who’s come along for a second episode with us so we can hear a bit about, more about her sleep journey with her second baby, and also discussing a bit about what it’s like having teenagers in the house, because we’ve talked with people who’ve got pre-schoolers and school-aged kids, but we haven’t had a guest on yet who’s really had a bit of a chat about how sleep looks when you’ve got teenage kids. So in case that’s of interest for people looking way down the track for most of our listeners. So welcome back to the show, Terese.Terese:Thank you.Carly:And where we left off, we were just talking about how you, you really had a very relaxed and realistic view of going into sleep with your second babe.Terese:Yeah.Carly:You weren’t thinking it was going to be peachy, but you were also not stressed about what was ahead of you. How did it actually turn out when she arrived?Normal infant sleepTerese:Yeah, so she was a much calmer baby, except we adjusted how we were. So our first babe went straight to cot. We didn’t do bassinet, didn’t do any of that. Our second babe, we decided no, like we’re going to have a bassinet. And I was like I feel like that might help with feeding, it might help with everything. So, I didn’t really base how we approached it on any specific like theory or what people had said, it was just more like I’m feeling like I want this. And she was a very worrying sleeper, because she’d always snuggle into the side of the bassinet. So I was forever moving her.Carly:These little movers and groovers, they give you stress levels when they’re newbies.Terese:She still is. She headbutts the wall of a night-time now, so it’s like she’s forever moving.Or she’ll like spin herself 180 and go like bury herself under her blanket. Like, she’s…Carly:Actually Sylvie was like that, ‘cause she learnt to roll herself… so early. But she could only roll one way. The relief I felt when she could flip herself back over. I was like bawh!Terese:Yeah.Carly:‘Cause you just wake up, and she was so tiny. But oof, and she'd do the flip so quick! Yep. Anyway, sorry.Terese:No, you’re right. She’s, yeah, definitely a mover groover, and we started using like sleep suits and stuff. Didn’t do any of that with our first one. Yeah, with the second one we decided, oh, we’d invest in those Love to Dream swaddles and stuff, ‘cause it wasn’t until our first one was a bit older that… ‘cause none of my friends had babies. Like, I’d not been around babies for like years.So I was like, oh okay, like what’s all this new stuff? And like there’s so much out there now.Carly:Yeah. Too much.Learn more about safer sleepTerese:So much. And so I went, oh, like okay, like you can actually get these little suits for sleep and like maybe that would stop the effect of startling like? And so I was like, I’m going to try it, like ‘cause I don’t want to do belly sleeping.Carly:Yep.Terese:And then she started rolling in the bassinet and I went, now your arms are stuck in this suit and you’re rolling.Ahh.Carly:This is a nightmare.Terese:Yeah.Carly:That’s a… that was my girl too. I had that real problem. I had to take her out of those suits so quick. ‘Cause she was so determined to roll.Terese:Yep. I moved her to one where the arms were free.‘Cause I was like at least then you can use your arms.Carly:Yep.Terese:And she did. And, yeah.Carly:Was yours like a little…? Mine was like a little turtle. Like she, from really new… she could push up and… Because she was crawling at four months.But she was just so strong in her…Terese:Yeah. So I would like watch her so much of a night-time, and I was like, God, I’m glad you’re right next to the bed ‘cause I can lay here and like watch you without getting too exhausted, ‘cause like I’m resting.Carly:Yeah.And I think too, ‘cause you get like a… an anxiety about it, but it’s almost like a… a warranted anxiety.Terese:Yeah. Yeah.Carly:Because you know that it is a risk.But at the same time what are you going to do?Terese:Exactly.Carly:So keeping her close, being able to monitor her. That was a great safety mechanism.Terese:Yep. It was…Carly:‘Cause you can imagine if she was away from you…Terese:Oh, if she was in a whole ‘nother room I don’t think I’d sleep.Carly:No.Terese:I’d forever be like checking and, yeah. Like, I feel like my anxiety around that side of stuff was higher with the second one, um, than what it was with our first, while…Carly:Do you think it was awareness of…?Terese:I think it was just more like with our first I wasn’t so… like I just wasn’t worried about it.Carly:Mm.Terese:‘Cause I was like, oh well, like babies are like, you know, they’re mini primates. They know what to do.Carly:Mm.Terese:Like, we don’t have to worry too much.Carly:Meanwhile…Ha. Yes.Terese:So then I was like, mm, okay, let’s, you know.Carly:Try a few things and see what you can do.Terese:Yeah, let’s… let’s rejig this.Carly:Yep.Terese:And, yeah, she predominantly slept for like six solid hours from the time she was put down. Like her second night at home, so much calmer.Carly:Wow.Terese:So much calmer. There was, I think it was like the fourth night where she was a little bit unsettled, and then I was like, oh, you know what? I’m going to try this one, or this thing that everyone talks about, ‘cause I was like I hate doing this stuff.Carly:Yeah.Terese:‘Cause then like the people’s comments of ‘Don’t get them used to that. They’re going to always…’ I started going, oh no, like if I do it now, like am I…?Carly:You’ll be doing it forever.Terese:So, I really questioned it and then, yeah, I was like, oh, I don’t have a white noise machine because I wasn’t doing this, like this is not what I was doing. So, I literally YouTube.Carly:Yeah.Terese:I put my phone screen down really low, like so it wouldn’t brighten everything, and that was the one thing where she would then settle for four or five hours. And then she woke again and I kind of like, I had this sort of like, why aren’t you sleeping now, you know? And I went, oh, it’s just one night Terese. Like seriously, get over it. And I was like, I’ll pick her up.Carly:Every night’s different.Terese:Give her comfort.But I was like, oh, like in that moment instead of being like, No! And like getting really stressed and that. I’m doing something wrong, or something’s not right, or like, you know. I just went, oh, okay, like you just want cuddles. Like something’s going on.Carly:Yep. You stopped questioning so hard.Terese:Like, you just let it go. Carly:Because a lot of energy goes into that questioning and problem solving. Whereas if you just go, yeah, she’s awake.Let’s give her a cuddle and get on with it.Terese:Just do what we’re doing. We’ll be right.Carly:Yeah. And so how was feeding going through that time then for you?Terese:Really good. Like, the first… like she was about 3 months old when we hit our first speed bump, and it was more she just wanted more and more and more and more and more, and she was really unsettled for a couple of days, and I went what is going on? And ‘cause at first I was like, okay, like you’re cluster feeding. Like, you’ve hit like a…Carly:Upping your supply. Yeah.Terese:Yeah. that’s fine. Like, I can work with this. And then went through the first night and I was like, okay, like not unusual, like a day and night. Like that’s fine. And then the next day, I feel like I’ve got nothing left for you.Carly:Nothing’s happening. Mm.Terese:Like, I don’t know if you’re doing it to try and boost supply, but my supply’s not boosting. I’m not responding.Carly:Yep, you could feel the difference.Terese:So I was like, oh, what do I do?Carly:Yep.Terese:So we ended up buying formula as a backup. And then, yeah, my supply had dipped a bit, but what she was trying to do to boost it wasn’t working. And I was like, oh, you need sleep. I need to be able to boost my supply. Like how are we going to do this? So then we patchwork fed for, I think it was like two or three days. So I think she ended up having maybe like one full formula bottle across that time. It was something very minor because I was like, ‘Is that all she had?’ In my head I was like, oh, she has so much…Carly:You were thinking she’s starving. Yeah.Terese:Like, yeah. And then I got onto a recipe for lactation cookies and all that type of stuff, and I was like, okay, like I’m going to try these things that I didn’t really have that opportunity to try with Cora. So I was like, no, I’m going to try this time. I’m going to, you know, instead of just going, oh well, that’s that. I was like, no, I’ll give it a go.Carly:It was important to you to try these things.Terese:Yeah. And then after she’d feed from me and if she went down for a sleep, like if she was still looking for more Ross would give her the bottle while I then pumped. ‘Cause I’m like, I’m just going to see if I can actually get any more after she’s pulled away. And then Cora… Cora would come and sit with me and she’d hold the pump, and she’d be like “helping?”.Carly:Oh darling.Terese:And I was like, oh, okay, you can do your helping. And like she pressed the button on the pump and she’d do all that. And that was her little thing and like at first I was kind of like, no, don’t touch. And I was like, no, actually, like yeah. You can…Carly:You can help.Terese:You can help through this way. And then Ross was like, ‘Oh, we haven’t been involving her as much as what we could.’ Yeah. I was like, no , we haven’t okay, here we go.Carly:Well, she was interested, so it’s good.Terese:Yeah, and so then from there she became you need to… baby’s crying mum. Like, you know, there’s literally a photo of her pointing at Amariah on the lounge with Amariah crying. And she’s like frowning at me like…Carly:Come on, mum.Terese:… what is this?Carly:Baby needs help.Terese:Hello? And I was like, oh, stop.Carly:So cute.Terese:So, then we really involved her and then she became, she would sit next to me on the lounge and she would hold bear while I was feeding. And she would say, ‘Are you feeding baby?’ I’m like, ‘I’m feeding baby.’ And then she’d say, ‘I feed my baby.’Carly:Her baby.Terese:And then like she’d try and feed her baby, and things like that. And I was like, oh. Carly:It’s really beautiful, isn’t it? Watching our bigger ones.Terese:This is actually more relaxing than what it ever has been. So I was like, okay.And then yeah, my supply came back and managed to feed her through till when she went to daycare. ‘Cause my thing was I can’t express. I could get next to nothing when I did pump, so I was like, I’m not going to try and express for day-care. ‘Cause I was going back to work full-time. I was like, I get one break in the day, like it’s not enough to feed her.So, I just went, oh well. We’ll transition out of the bottle. And that way then, like come then she was 12 months so we just slowly…Ideas for navigating breastfeeding and returning to workCarly:Wow, you did so well.Terese:Yeah. Ten weeks to 12 months.Carly:Oh, Terese.Terese:Bit of a difference.Carly:That’s epic.Terese:So then, yeah, we transitioned her slowly over to the watered-down cow’s milk, ‘cause everyone’s like, ‘Oh, don’t just give it to them straight.’ Like, blah blah blah. And I was like, oh, should we look into like an alternate milk? And Ross was like, nah.Carly:If you’re going to feed, it’s what’s in your family diet, isn’t it? Because I think that’s, people question that and mostly it’s going to be in your family diet.Terese:… Ross and I have been vegan before, so we’ve had soy milk. We’ve had like, you know all these different milks. So we were like, oh, do we just do cow’s milk? Are we that family that buys like half a trolley of milk now? Like, is that what we’re doing? So we kind of went, oh, okay. And like Cora was having her milk bottles, and so then I kind of went, oh, like you know, maybe they’ll just watch each other and…Carly:Work it out.Terese:… that’s that.Carly:Because you can do sippy cups and things too from when they’re 12 months. Can’t you.You don’t need to even necessarily go…Terese:No. Bottle. No. So now they have sippy cups, ‘cause they like to have a bottle of a night-time.Carly:Ah. That’s a, how’s the teeth? Do you have to do the… do they let you brush them afterwards?Terese:Yes. Yep. Most of the time, like so they’ll brush their teeth of a morning. Of a night, like after dinner, so they go for their bath then brush their teeth, and then pending how they’re going, if they fall asleep while they’re having the bottle I’m like, oh.Carly:It’s a tough one then, isn’t it?Terese:Yeah.Carly:Messing with… messing with a sleeping baby. Who wants to do that?Terese:Yes, exactly. Um, but yeah, that’s a whole ‘nother…Carly:Yeah. There’s always something.Terese:Yeah. And then the dummies because… anyway.Carly:Dummies are a challenge.Terese:They are.Carly:I only had one guy who took a dummy and it was, he ended up giving it up easy enough when he decided it was… but he decided it was time. Like he was, but still then him trying to figure out who to calm down to sleep. Whoof. It’s hard work for them. So, it’s like another, it was…Terese:Yeah. Like had Cora putting dummies out for the dummy fairy, and then the dummy fairy would leave a book, like at the front door. So, we would normally do it like when we were going out.So, like one of us would put the kids in the car and then the other one would do the swaparoo and chuck the dummies. And that was working. And then she realised Amariah still had a dummy.Carly:Oh, it’s tricky being when you’ve got the little one, hey?Terese:So she’s like, uh, you don’t just get a dummy, and would keep taking her dummy.Carly:Ah, and you’re like, she’s tiny.Terese:Mm. And so that came into the challenge. And like they’ll go, both of them all day at daycare without a dummy.They don’t even look for it, don’t ask for it, don’t anything. Come home, the second they get in the car, ‘Where’s my dummy?’And I’m like, we don’t need a dummy, we’re in the car.Like, we don’t need a dummy. We’re good. And like…Carly:It’s such a comfort pattern though, isn’t it? For them.Terese:It’s just, yeah. And like Ross gets really annoyed at the dummies, ‘cause he’s like, ‘They don’t need dummies.’ I’m like, I know they don’t need them.Carly:But they help them still.Terese:To us. But for them, they’re like, ‘I need the dummy.’And so now, like we, if they’re doing something, eating at the table, anything like that, we’re always like, ‘Dummies up.’ Like, you know, we do something. ‘Take your dummy out.’ And they’ll take it out, but they don’t even suck on them anymore.Carly:They’re just there.Terese:They just sit there. And it’s like…Carly:I’ve heard that for lots of people, and I think like the, you know, trying to go gradually like you guys are it just, it’s got to be the gentlest way for them.Terese:And then we’re going to introduce another one.Carly:Yeah, but that’s it, even it is different because you’ve got that slightly bigger age gap this time.It does help, ‘cause they’re kind of in a different realm.Like, I know our guys with the babe, they were very understanding of the baby.Terese:That’s a baby. Yeah.Carly:Like, they got the difference.It’s not always easy when they’re so close together.Terese:No.Carly:‘Cause they’re both babies.So, it’s a bit tricky.Terese:We’re hoping that they’re a little bit more understanding of that’s baby. That’s for baby.But we’ll see how that goes.Carly:Yeah, see how that goes, ‘cause it’s always… Like we said though, there’s always something. So my other two never had dummies, so we never had to do the… the dummy weaning stuff.But we, you know, with my other two there were still stages and things where they found sleep really hard that I probably skipped over with my first guy ‘cause the dummy helped.And I just didn’t have that with them. So, I don’t think there’s like any one option for you where you’re going to avoid rough times with your littles.Terese:And Cora didn’t take a dummy until she was 3 months old, and that was ‘cause she started teething at three months.So she like identified it as like a soother.Carly:Oh bubba.Terese:And that was the first time that we’d given it to her, and she kept it. ‘Cause when we first identified she was colicky we kept giving the dummy to try and soothe her by thinking maybe you just need to suck. Like we don’t know what’s going on for you. And she would always spit it out and just not want it. And so we were like, okay, no worries. And then my, you know, process of elimination. And then one afternoon I gave it to her when I was undressing her for bath and she kept it in her mouth the whole time, like getting undressed, carrying to the bath, going for bath, getting out of the bath, getting dressed after bath. Like, and she would not let it go and I was like alright, we take a dummy now. And then it was here and there after that, and it wasn’t until she was about the 10, 11-month-old mark that she started going, ‘I want my dummy.’And I was like, oh, I should have just gotten rid of them.Carly:When you weren’t so phased with it.Terese:And then, I was like, I missed a… like, damn.Carly:Yeah, it’s tricky.Terese:So, yeah, and now she’ll still like hold it in her mouth and then we kind of like, you know, ‘You’re a big girl now,’ like, ‘We don’t need dummies.’ Like, you know. And she’ll take like six dummies to bed with her.She’ll use one.Carly:Yeah, yeah. But she’s got her collection.Terese:And she puts them next to her pillow. And we’re kind of like, oh.Carly:Oh man, I love 3-year-olds. I’ve got a 3… they are just hilarious. Like, I feel like it’s just that…Terese:She does some funny things.Carly:It’s the best.Terese:But the, yeah, like with Amariah, like she didn’t take a dummy either. We didn’t use a dummy for soothing. She would feed to sleep. So I would feed her to sleep whilst patting Cora. So I would literally sit on the end of Cora’s bed patting Cora and breastfeeding Amariah to sleep. And then, yeah, like they… she’d fall off to sleep feeding, and then I’d pat Cora off to sleep and then go put Amariah down in the bassinet. So then we started doing like transition for day naps in the cot to see how she’d go. ‘Cause I was like, I’m okay if like the day sleep’s disrupted a bit.Breastfeeding to sleepTerese:Like we can manage that. ‘Cause then she’ll fall back asleep on me. Like, you know, it’s easy enough to manage in amongst Cora. Like, chuck her in the babywearer, she can still get a decent sleep.Night-time sleep, like she was sleeping the six, seven hours chunk at the beginning. I was like, I don’t want to disrupt her…Carly:Don’t want to mess with that.Terese:… decent sleep.Like that’s, you know, her good chunk of sleep. And so we did that way, and she transitioned quite…Carly:Fine.Terese:Yeah, it was literally like few days and she was like fine.Carly:You sound like you got so lucky that you were able to like get them off to sleep and put them down. ‘Cause I, like I… I didn’t…Terese:Not all the time.Carly:Okay. Yeah, I was going to say ‘cause…Terese:Not every time.Carly:‘Cause I definitely didn’t have transferrable babies. That’s for sure.Terese:Not every time. Sometimes it would be like, you know, I’d be sitting in with Cora for like an hour, hour and a half, to get her off to sleep.‘Cause she was just, she still is. Sometimes she’ll take, you know, the hour and a half to go off to sleep.Depending if she’s had a nap or just rested at day-care and…Carly:Oh, 3-year-olds and naps. Bah.Terese:Yeah. All that type of stuff. So, it’s an ongoing thing, but it’s just one of those things that’s a little bit messy and takes a bit longer sometimes, and so that’s normally when like I’ll chuck an airpod in and listen to podcasts.‘Cause I’m like, what else do you do when you’re patting a babe off to sleep. Like, I could still hear you. I’m here. I’m comforting. I’m still present. But… also zoning.Carly:And I’m not going to lose my crap because I’ve got something else I can… focus on for now.Terese:Exactly. And so then, yeah, I’d pat her off to sleep, and if it took quite a while and Amariah would like go off quite quickly then when I would go to move her sometimes she would go like, oh. Like, you’re putting me down, and then she would have another feed because she hadn’t had a decent feed.Carly:I was going to say, she might not have been done.Terese:‘Cause she fell asleep. Exactly.So there were nights where like she could wake like an hour or two after being put down.But otherwise, like most times… I’d say like 90 percent of the time she’d go down fine. But…Carly:Amazing.Terese:… like she is…Carly:You lucked out by the way. Can I just, like wow. Wow. To everybody listening along at…Terese:Yeah, I know. They are pretty good sleepers.Carly:Yeah, and I think, but it is really good for people listening along to know, like, you… you fed them to sleep, you’ve helped your babes off to sleep.The entire time.And they can sleep these big, long chunks.Terese:Yeah.Carly:Because that’s like, I think some people really get it in their head that if you do those things they’re going to wake ‘cause…Terese:Yeah, they’re forever, yep.Carly:… you’ve got your dependent sleep associations that people love to go on about.Terese:Nup.Carly:It just doesn’t work like that.They sleep for as long as they can sleep.Terese:Yeah. Exactly.Like now Cora wakes during the night…and then she just walks straight in and stands at the side of the bed where I am and she’ll just wait.Carly:Say ‘Mum.’Terese:Yes.Carly:‘I’m going to need you.’Terese:Yep. And then I’m like, ‘Okay, I need you to climb up, ‘cause mummy cannot lift you right now.’And so then like, yep.Carly:Comes in for a snuggle.Terese:She’ll climb up and then she just snuggles on in and that’s it. Like, she’s back asleep within ten seconds.Carly:Sounds like my 3-year-old. Just needs this closeness.I don’t know too, like for mine… my person, and she’s got a lot of time away from us at the moment too – started kindy and doing all those things.So I feel like she’s gotten even more intense with her need to come in for extra cuddles at night.Because she’s got so much time away. Like, a reconnection.Terese:Cora’s started liking to watch videos. So, she likes to watch them on like a tablet or something. And so then of an afternoon where she would normally come for cuddles, she is now watching videos.Carly:Ah.Terese:And so I’m like, alright. Like, I feel like you’ve just shifted.Carly:Just swapped some of that out a bit. Yeah.Terese:Yeah, you’ve shifted where you’re getting it from.Carly:But, and it’s like different with third baby coming and what not too. Like, it’s kind of their needs remain… even though you are now split even more. And I think that’s part of the adjustment when you welcome a new person, ‘cause I think you sometimes then expect more from your toddlers.Terese:Ooh yeah.Carly:But actually they’re still that same little person.Terese:Exactly.Carly:They look huge when you’ve got a newborn. Huge.Terese:Then you’ve got like your, ‘You should be past this.’Carly:Yeah, but really they’re not.Terese:No.Carly:And I think it’s like such an important one to keep calling yourself back on, hey? To realise that actually they’re still really small, and trying to work with them. ‘Cause it’s a big shift for them too, isn’t it?Terese:Oh yeah.Carly:And she’ll know for sure that there’s, you know, new human.She’s been there, done this before. Big sister.Terese:No, she sits in the car, ‘cause she’s in the middle next to both, ‘cause she’s the one that you can say like, ‘Gentle hands’, and understands gentle hands.Whereas the other ones. Oh.Carly:Oh, the car seat placements. We had that. We had that.Terese:The amount of stuff that goes into…And we put his seat in and she goes, ‘Mum, you’ve put his seat in but you haven’t put him in yet.’ And I’m like, ‘No, ‘cause he’s not born yet.’Carly:He’s still tucked.Terese:And then she’s like, ‘Well, you need to get him out of your belly.’ And I was like, ‘I know.’Carly:She’s ready to meet him.Terese:I know he has to come out of the belly.Carly:Aw.Terese:So yeah, she’s kind of like, ‘Where is he?’ Like every afternoon. ‘Where’s the baby, mum?’I’m like, it’s still in mum’s belly. Carly:Well, not for much longer, Cora, we're all excited to hear soon.Terese:So we’ll just have to wait. And she's kind of like, oh, like, you know, this is ridiculous. It's like, yeah knowCarly:Was I'm just thinking. Cause I just looked at the time when, nearly at the end of our second episode, but before we do that, you have a teenager in your house.Terese:We doCarly:How does teenage sleep look?Terese:So he, he struggles with the early wakes from the younger ones. So yeah. Um, he would normally have like, he would go to bed really, really late and then wake upCarly:To sleep in.Terese:Yeah. Whereas he's gone through a bit of a shift. So when he was living with his mum, he could do that because there were no little kids in their house. So now he's had to shift all of that and he's like, he's responded quite well to it in that he does go to bed earlier and that he does still struggle a bit to go off to sleep though. Yeah. So it's quite a different, like he obviously doesn't need you to sit there and pat him off to sleep, but he does need those cues of like, okay, like, you know, you need to put the phone down. Yeah. We need to stop this now. We need to do this. Like, you know, and try and work him through that.Carly:Supporting his sleep hygiene. Yeah.How's your sleep hygiene looking?Terese:But it's also like, you're 14. Yeah. This is for you, like yeah. You know, to understand and to work through and so we try and do it in a way that's not like “ Oh you always telling me to get off my phone!” You know, because then it becomes a different argument. And it's like, we're not saying it for that. We're saying we're trying to help you get off to sleep.Which he's actually quite receptive to. So that's good. Um, but yeah, he'll generally sleep through. Like he gets himself up for school and everything come six o'clock.Carly:That's awesome. So like some teens really struggle with that, get up for school time. Cause I know they've talked about pushing high school later. Cause the teen normally naturally sleeps that bit later.Terese:So he started getting up, like he kind of realized, oh like the girls are up, come six. Like, you know,Carly:That's when the game's on in the house.Terese:Really, so like, you can't really sleep too much past there. On a weekend, though, he does manage to, and we're like, it's the weekend. OhCarly:Of course. He's gotta be able to have rest when he wants to rest as well.Terese:We're not worried. Yeah. Cause he'll be like, oh, do I have to be up in the morning? We're like, nup.You’re good. If anything one of us will be home, and the other one goes with the girls. Yeah. Like you're right. And um, like he'll get himself up, get himself ready for school. All the rest of it, comes home. Does his thing. And like generally takes himself off to bed come nine. Cuz like Ross is very stern on like 9:30pm latest your bedtime. Cause he is like, I know that you take a bit to get to sleep. So I wanna make sure that by the time you're asleep, you’re getting enough sleep.Carly:Yeah. Fair call. Does he feel better when he is had enough? Like does he notice the feeling of when he hasn't had enough sleep?Terese:Yeah. He kind of goes, oh I didn't sleep very well last night. And you know, we kind of go, oh, like how do you know that? Like what happened? And he's like, oh I woke at this time. And then I woke at this time and then I woke at this time andCarly:Still waking at night. Just doesn't mean, you know, a cuddle with mom and dad anymoreTerese:ExactlyCarly:Does he, like, I'm curious to know though, cuz you know, lots goes on in teen brains and whatnot. Does he at times need to like download? What's worrying him before bed?Terese:Well said to him like, oh, are you worried about anything? Like did something happen at school that day? Or like, you know, what do you kind of wake up? Like, are you thinking about something or like what's kind of happening? and he'll be like, oh, I thought about like what I was meant to do in this class or like, you know, I remembered that I didn't do this. So Ross has gotten him into the habit of um, cuz with the boys, like I very much go like Ross is the main parent there. I was like, I'm side, but you are yeah, you are the main one there. And so he's like, oh like, here's a notebook, here's a pen. That's your diary. Put that next to your bed. If you wake during the night and you're thinking of stuff, write it down. Yeah. So he's tried to kind of like get him to a point of - it's okay that you're waking coz you're worried about it, but what happens after that? Like how can we manage after that? And so he's kind of gone “Oh, okay”. And like on the weekend stuff was worrying him so he decided on like “Dad, I'm going to write in my book, like I need to get stuff out” And Ross was like, “okay, alright!”Carly:Good work.Terese:He's like “Oh! he actually listens!”Carly:That's a high five moment with a teen in the house. Sure, sure.Terese:Ross was already like “I’m out man!”Carly:<laugh>Terese:Ross is like “Oh! He actually listens to me!”Carly:Take that one! of course he does. It's so good though, because it's not done in a threatening manner. Like it's just a like, you know, these are some tools, you don't have to use it, but you might find it helpful.Terese:Yeah, like Ross goes, you know, do you pull up notes on your phone? He’d say, I don't know how your kids like, you know, use your phones for this side of things. And he's like, uh, sometimes like, yeah, you can write notes and stuff and all that. And Ross's like, okay, like, do you do like journal? Or like you don't or like, you know, where are you at? And Riley will be like, “nobody journals, Dad”Carly:Actually! Lot’s of people do. Yeah, they do, but they're gonna tell you about it.Terese:Exactly. And that's what we said to him. We're like, yeah, it's okay if you do, like the whole point of journal is for yourself and it's a way of getting, your thoughts outCarly:Don't need to discuss it with anyone.Terese:Exactly. And um, like Ross just said to him, you know, if that is your way of doing it, like if you do wake at night, he's like, it's not great to have your phoneCarly:Lights onTerese:You know, hence the paper and pen so that you're not having like this bright light. And he is like, well, I still open my phone so that I can see the paper and pen. And Ross was like, yeah, well fair point. So, but like he's very open to that side of things. So I think if you had like a teenager that wasn't though to manage, like the waking and stuffCarly:I guess that'd be the thing, isn't it? You'd be adjusting to that a little bit, the person you got, again.Terese:But growing up, my sister would sleep all the time. Whereas I was up early, going for a run, home. Like, you know, like we'd go to sleep at the same time,Carly:But bodies are so different, aren't they? Yeah. I'm a very sleepy person. Yeah. Which is interesting being the person I am, but I actually need way more sleep than most adults. Like I'm above average in terms of sleep that I actually need. Yeah and, I've always been like that. So as a teenager, I was shocking to get places. Yeah. But I wasn't doing anything wrong. Like I was just doing what my body needed. Yeah. and so I think that's the thing once again, like if your teen is a really long sleeper or there is still teens who don't need much sleep as well, if they're functioning well, you're not seeing like that, that tiredness in them, they might actually be all right as well. So you can adjust accordingly. But alright, well I'm just looking at our timer. We are maxed out to the max, but I so glad we got the teen conversation in and we're very excited to be welcoming third baby callings any day now. Hopefully, but thank you so much for coming on the show. And we got a unique perspective there. What a comeback for a breastfeeding journey too, for second, babe. Well done, you! Very different with also just different mindset to go with, which is awesome. Yeah. And appreciate the take on teen sleep. We haven't had that one before, so thank you!Terese:All good.Carly:I really hope you enjoyed the podcast today the information we discussed was just that information only it is not specific advice if you take any action following something you've heard from our show today it is important to make sure you get professional advice about your unique situation before you proceed whether that advice is legal, financial, accounting, medical or any other advice. Please reach out to me if you do have any questions or if there's a topic you'd really like us to be covering and if you know somebody who'd really benefit from listening to our podcast please be sure to pass our name along also check out our free peer support group the beyond sleep training project and our wonderful website www.littlesparklers.org. If you'd like even more from the show you can join us as a patron on Patreon and you can find a link for that in our show notes if listening is not really your jam we also make sure we put full episode transcripts on our little sparklers website for you to also enjoy and fully captioned YouTube videos as well on our Little Sparklers channel so thanks again for listening today we really enjoy bringing this podcast to you. Join us on Patreon today “The Beyond Sleep Training Podcast (Podcast) is hosted by Little Sparklers (us, we or our). The primary purpose of this Podcast is to educate and inform. It does not constitute professional advice or services. We invite guests on the Podcast from time to time (Guests). In listening to this Podcast, you acknowledge and agree that the views expressed in this podcast are: information only and do not constitute professional advice from us or our Guests; personal to us and our Guests and do not necessarily reflect any other agency, organisation, employer or company and may not be verified for accuracy; and general in nature and do not refer to any unique situation. If you take action on the basis of any Podcast episode, you should obtain professional advice – whether legal, financial, accounting, medical or otherwise – before proceeding. This Podcast is available for private, non-commercial use only. Advertising which is incorporated into, placed in association with or targeted toward the content of this Podcast without our express approval is forbidden. You may not edit, modify, or redistribute this Podcast. We assume no liability for any activities in connection with this Podcast or for use of this Podcast in connection with any other website, third party streaming service, computer or playing device.